Background photo by John Larracas @johnlarracas, courtesy of Walltopia[Editor’s Note: This list was first published on December 2, 2013, and was updated on August 16, 2024.]At the time of this writing, there are more than 635 commercial climbing gyms in the United States. We love climbing, and we love celebrating climbing gym businesses doing big things in their communities. Each year, we report on industry growth and award the largest new climbing gyms that opened their doors for the first time. But of all the gyms—new and old—in existence today around the country, which ones are the biggest, in terms of offering the most climbing?
We crunched the numbers, checking with the gym operators to verify square footage figures. Below is a list of the top ten largest climbing gyms in America, based on total square feet of climbing wall surface.
In addition to this top 10 list, be sure to check out the Largest Bouldering Gyms, Tallest Climbing Gyms and Largest Climbing Gym Developers in America.
Photo of Movement Crystal City courtesy of Michael Emery Hecker
10. Movement Crystal City
Wall Size: 35,000 sqft
Open Year: 2016
Location: Arlington, Virginia
Walls: Walltopia
Flooring: Cascade Specialty
CRM/POS Software: Rock Gym Pro
Movement Crystal City is the 10th largest climbing gym in the U.S., located across the Potomac River, South of Washington, D.C., and ten minutes away from the Ronald Reagan Washington Airport. The gym originally opened as Earth Treks Crystal City in 2016 and now features over 350 routes on 40-foot walls in a 45,000-square-foot facility. Besides 35,000 square feet of climbing, Movement Crystal City also has a full-service fitness gym, yoga studio and a gear shop, plus a range of group climbing classes, yoga and fitness classes, personal training and private coaching.Photo by Michael Emery Hecker, courtesy of Movement
9. Movement Design District
Wall Size: 35,880 sqft
Open Year: 2022
Location: Dallas, Texas
Walls: Walltopia
Flooring: Cascade Specialty
CRM/POS Software: Rock Gym Pro
The 9th-largest climbing gym in the United States, based on total climbing wall surface, is Movement Design District, with 35,880 square feet of climbing. In 2022, the year the gym first opened, Movement Design District won the Largest New Gym of the Year award and was Movement’s 20th location. The gym—located in the Dallas-Fort Worth area—features 56-foot climbing walls in a 45,417-square-foot facility, with a mix of roped, bouldering and speed terrain. Other amenities at the gym include fitness and cardio zones, group classes, youth programming, saunas and a gear shop.Photo by Dwight Kennedy, courtesy of Carabiner’s
8. Carabiner’s Climbing and Fitness
Wall Size: 36,600 sqft
Open Year: 2004
Location: New Bedford, Massachusetts
Walls: Owner/contractor
Flooring: Owner/contractor
CRM/POS Software: Rock Gym Pro
In 8th place, Carabiner’s Climbing and Fitness Centers was founded by Steve Caton in 2004 and features 36,600 square feet of climbing. After breaking ground on the gym in 2001, Caton acted as the designer, engineer, certified welder, and foreman of the construction crew for Carabiner’s. When the facility first opened, it was the largest indoor climbing gym in the U.S. After expanding several times—remaining the largest gym for seven years—Carabiner’s lost that position in 2011. The gym’s 65-foot climbing walls are some of the tallest in the country.Photo by Michael Emery Hecker, courtesy of Movement
7. Movement Lincoln Park
Wall Size: 37,079 sqft
Open Year: 2021
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Walls: Walltopia
Flooring: Cascade Specialty
CRM/POS Software: Rock Gym Pro
Movement Lincoln Park, the 7th-largest climbing gym in the U.S., opened in Chicago in November 2021. On its 37,079 square feet of climbing surface, the roped and bouldering gym has over 200 climbs. The 41,181-square-foot facility received the Tallest New Gym of the Year award in 2021, with climbing walls reaching 56 feet, and was the second-largest new climbing gym to open that year. In addition to the climbing terrain, the gym has a soundproof yoga studio, several lounge areas, a gear shop, and a floor dedicated to cardio and weightlifting equipment.Photo of Movement Rockville courtesy of Michael Emery Hecker
6. Movement Rockville
Wall Size: 38,000 sqft
Open Year: 2006
Location: Rockville, Maryland
Walls: Comp Wall
Flooring: Cascade Specialty
CRM/POS Software: Rock Gym Pro
The 6th-largest climbing gym in the U.S., with 38,000 square feet of climbing, is Movement Rockville. Originally Earth Treks Rockville before it was rebranded in 2021, the bouldering and roped gym near D.C. was the largest in the nation from 2011 to August 2014. At the end of 2023, Movement announced plans to reinvest nearly $1 million into the 29,000-square-foot facility, which will be getting a climbing training zone—with a 12×12 Kilter Board and 12×12 Tension Board 2—an expanded fitness area, upgraded locker rooms and yoga room, new holds and more.Photo courtesy of Sportrock
5. Sportrock Climbing Centers Alexandria
Wall Size: 38,500 sqft
Open Year: 1996
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Walls: Radwall; Rockwerx; Walltopia
Flooring: Flashed
CRM/POS Software: Rock Gym Pro
The 5th-largest climbing gym in the U.S. is Sportrock Alexandria, with 38,500 square feet of climbing surface. The 41,000-square-foot facility is the oldest on this list, having opened in 1996; it’s also the longest standing gym run by Sportrock, which has been developing and operating climbing gyms since 1994. The mixed-discipline Alexandria gym boasts 61-foot roped walls and 14-foot boulders, with over 150 routes and 125 problems. Also inside the facility are two 15-meter speed walls, a MoonBoard, and several more training and fitness amenities.Photo by Tobin Davies, courtesy of Mesa Rim
4. Mesa Rim Austin
Wall Size: 40,000 sqft
Open Year: 2023
Location: Austin, Texas
Walls: EP Climbing
Flooring: Strati
CRM/POS Software: Rock Gym Pro
The 4th-largest climbing gym in the U.S. isMesa Rim Austin, which won the Largest New Gym of the Year award last year. The 52,000-square-foot facility—California-based Mesa Rim’s first Texas location—features 40,000 square feet of climbing, with walls reaching 55 feet, a 15-meter speed wall and 16-foot boulders. It’s often said that “everything’s bigger in Texas”—a state that’s home to two gyms on this list and a third large gym in Momentum Indoor Climbing Katy (28,450 square feet of climbing)—and while not the largest climbing gym, Mesa Rim Austin is bigger than most.Photo of Movement Englewood courtesy of Brennah Rosenthal
3. Movement Englewood
Wall Size: 42,123 sqft
Open Year: 2018
Location: Englewood, Colorado
Walls: Walltopia
Flooring: Cascade Specialty
CRM/POS Software: Rock Gym Pro
Movement Englewood, formerly Earth Treks Englewood, is the 3rd-largest climbing gym in the U.S. The bouldering and roped climbing gym opened its 42,123 square feet of climbing in the Denver metro area in 2018. According to the Movement website, the 52,000-square-foot facility is “large enough to house an entire football field worth of climbing,” with 55-foot climbing walls and over 400 climbs. Like other Movement gyms, the Englewood location has a variety of climbing and training classes, as well as yoga and fitness options accompanying the climbing.Photo courtesy of Vertical Endeavors
2. Vertical Endeavors – Glendale Heights
Wall Size: Pushing 46,000 sqft
Open Year: 2014
Location: Glendale Heights, Illinois
Walls: Nicros
Flooring: Nicros
CRM/POS Software: Rock Gym Pro
Vertical Endeavors – Glendale Heights was built in 2014 by Nicros—Vertical Endeavors’ parent company—and is the 2nd-largest climbing gym in the country, with 46,000 square feet of climbing terrain. At the time of the 42,000-square-foot facility’s opening, it was the sole gym with over 45,000 square feet of climbing, a distinction it held for seven years. The Glendale Heights gym, located on the west end of Chicago, was Minnesota-based Nicros’ second build in Illinois. The gym features 31.5-foot climbing walls, 450 climbs, 35 auto belays and a 20-foot horizontal hand crack.Photo by John Larracas @johnlarracas, courtesy of Walltopia
1. Pacific Pipe Company
Wall Size: 47,000 sqft
Open Year: 2021
Location: Oakland, California
Walls: Walltopia
Flooring: Flashed
CRM/POS Software: Rock Gym Pro
In 1st place on this list and the largest climbing gym in the U.S. is Pacific Pipe Company, opened in 2021 as Touchstone’s 14th location. The gym is situated in a former manufacturing warehouse in Oakland from the 1920’s, which sat vacant for decades before being repurposed for climbing. Today, the 55,500-square-foot building sports a whopping 47,000 square feet of climbing wall surface built by Walltopia, winner of the Wall Builder of the Year award for three years straight. Not surprisingly, Pacific Pipe won the Largest New Gym of the Year award in 2021, with 33,000 square feet of roped climbing on 55-foot climbing walls, bouldering terrain, training boards and a full lineup of fitness offerings.
OnSite’s recent build at La Zipette—pictured on the gym’s July 30th reopening night—may be the first instance of a North American wall manufacturer completing a climbing gym project in Europe. (Photo courtesy of OnSite)
Last month, La Zipette climbing gym reopened in the French city of Chambéry, following an expansion of the gym. The atmosphere at the laid-back, small-town bouldering gym was like that of a first-time opening, with a DJ, taps flowing, climbers sending. Amid the party, one detail wasn’t lost on the industry insiders at the event: the new climbing walls in the gym were built by OnSite, a Canadian manufacturer. While it has been common for wall builders originally founded in Europe to complete gym projects in North America, rarely—if ever—has the opposite happened. In fact, according to CBJ’s research and conversations with other wall builders, OnSite may be the first wall manufacturer originally founded in North America to have completed a commercial climbing gym project in Europe.
At the reopening night, OnSite’s founder and CEO, Francis Larose, told CBJ that he had long had his sights set on entering the European market. Before running a climbing wall business, Larose had a business in the video game industry that extended into Europe, and he founded OnSite with that goal in mind. Already, the company had been distributing home climbing walls outside North America, but it had yet to complete a gym project in Europe. With OnSite being based in French-speaking Montréal, Quebec, France was a logical choice for the experiment. “We have always wanted to build in Europe, but now was the moment everything came together,” said Larose. “It was the right time, the right location, and the right partner.”
The pieces started falling into place when La Zipette co-owner Aurélien Di Piazza got connected to Quentin Manzato—a construction team leader at OnSite and the eventual foreman of the expansion project—through a mutual friend. “Our gym just kept getting busier in recent years, especially in the evenings. We also wanted to offer more varied wall terrain in the gym,” said Di Piazza. At first, he was thinking of adding an expansion above the existing climbing walls; then, serendipitously, the trampoline park that had been next door moved further down the street, allowing the gym to move in. Larose felt the timing was also right for OnSite to make the leap to Europe—following the DÉLIRE acquisition last spring, and now that the industry is more removed from the economic shocks of the COVID pandemic. The two business owners met to discuss the project in Montreal, and soon the transatlantic collaboration was underway.
Completing a gym project on a different continent for the first time wasn’t a walk in the park. Some challenges the OnSite team had to navigate were increased taxes, VISAs for the construction crew, complex production and shipping logistics, and foreign market conditions. The market price of a new climbing wall can be much different depending on the location, Larose said, so they had to find alternatives to keep the project within La Zipette’s price range—sourcing the steel structure, wood panels and other essentials from different countries, for instance. Di Piazza also understood the two companies were in unchartered territory and was patient during the project, Larose added. Manzato’s ties to Chambery helped speed things along a bit, allowing the crew to source some equipment for the build from his contacts in the area.
The end result is a gym that’s around 1,500 square meters in size (approx. 16,000 square feet), compared to 750 square meters (approx. 8,000 square feet) when the gym first opened, in 2018. OnSite handled the design and construction for the renovation. Part of that work involved repositioning much of the original climbing walls to open up the space, redoing the supporting structure, and weaving in new panels. With the extra room, La Zipette’s owners opted for a new boulder with an arch as the centerpiece; training areas that will soon be getting fitness equipment, campus boards and three training boards—a Moonboard, Kilter Board and Tension Board 2—on OnSite’s adjustable frames; a larger social area with tables and cubbies; and upgraded flooring. Altogether, the new layout amounts to La Zipette 2.0—the same chill, local bouldering gym, just bigger.
As for what’s next for OnSite, Larose hinted that another gym project abroad is already underway, and more may follow. “For us, La Zipette was a relatively small project, but it shows gyms in Europe what we can do,” said Larose. “We’re here, and hopefully here to stay.”
What an epic week in Paris! Congrats to the medallists and all the athletes. And thank you to the routesetters, coaches, and all the support personnel. It was a showdown for the ages. Lots of Olympics recaps and commentary below.See The Freshest Job Posts Here
CBJ hosts the most active job board for climbing businesses and organizations. Below are the latest posts from this past week…Head RoutesetterAlta
Chandler/Gilbert, AZ
“Alta Climbing is seeking an experienced Head Routesetter to lead and develop our routesetting program. In this leadership role, you will oversee and manage all aspects of Alta’s routesetting operations, ensuring consistent quality, safety, and alignment with Alta’s community driven vision and competitive team values and needs.The Head Routesetter is a leadership position that requires a strong commitment to mentorship, customer service, and team management. You will build a positive and supportive culture within the routesetting department and wider community, foster growth, and mentor fellow routesetters.”
JOB SEEKER TIPS:
How Job Seekers Can Stand Out in a Competitive Market
By Simeen Mohsen
“Updating your resume is an obvious first step when starting a job search. To make it more impactful, focus on results rather than responsibilities. Employers are more interested in the impact you’ve had in previous roles and organizations than the tasks you’ve crossed off. “Read the full article here
Klättercentret opened its Helsingborg location (pictured) in South Sweden last February, a bouldering-focused facility that brings the business’s number of open gyms in the country to ten. (All photos courtesy of Klättercentret Helsingborg)
Klättercentret Helsingborg
Helsingborg, Sweden
Specs: Klättercentret Helsingborg, owned and operated by Petter Ulmert and Jan Sander, opened in Helsingborg, Sweden, on February 3rd this year. According to Ulmert, he and Sander met through climbing many years ago and, over time, “came up with the crazy idea of opening a climbing gym” in the south of Sweden, where indoor climbing was still gaining traction. After searching for the right place for many years, in 2016 the pair opened their first bouldering gym in Malmö, with a focus on making “climbing accessible, understandable and achievable,” said Ulmert. Now, Ulmert is the Managing Director of the two Malmö and Helsingborg facilities, in Skåne County, which together form the Klättercentret Skåne division of the Klättercentret gym chain.
Klättercentret originally opened around Stockholm in 2003 with the Klättercentret Solna location, founded by Concern Klättercentret, the business’s leadership group consisting of several operators. Klättercentret then began to grow steadily, opening nine more gyms throughout Sweden over the next 21 years. Helsingborg seemed like a fitting choice for the tenth location as “the eighth largest city in Sweden, with a population that we felt was large enough to support a new [gym],” Ulmert said, and also because there were few indoor climbing options in the area, and no commercial facilities like Klättercentret’s that were open year-round.
“We see that climbing as a sport is constantly expanding within mainstream culture,” Ulmert shared—an upward trajectory that he and Sander hoped to continue to support by opening a second gym together in a different city, for new and experienced climbers alike.
The leadership team chose to build the gym in a preexisting building because it is “very close to the city center and well-connected to public transport from anywhere in Helsingborg,” Ulmert explained. “It was also large enough to accommodate our needs in terms of the experience and spaces we wanted to be able to provide for customers.” In addition to 800 square meters (approx. 8,600 square feet) of climbing wall surface on 4.5-meter (14.8-foot) walls, Klättercentret Helsingborg offers a café, saunas, fitness equipment and a gear shop. The gym also has a “wooden training room” with fingerboards, campus boards and a Moon Board.
To successfully operate ten facilities, Ulmert said it has been necessary for Klättercentret to have solid business partners as well as a diverse range of entrepreneurial, financial, marketing and management skills on the teams developing and operating the gyms. “You need skills (and luck) in finding the right staff and co-workers that have the special skills of the business,” summed up Ulmert.
When operating a climbing gym—interacting with customers, setting routes, etc.—Ulmert encouraged other operators to reflect on “what actually works for people who are not experienced climbers.”Walls: T-WallFlooring: PolskokCRM Software: BRPWebsite: www.klattercentret.se/helsingborg/Instagram: @Klattercentret_Helsingborg
In Their Words: “Learn how to free yourself (and co-workers) from thinking too much like an experienced climber, otherwise you will struggle to understand what actually works for people who are not experienced climbers. It’s easy to get stuck in kind of an ‘echo chamber’ with how climbers think about climbing or setting routes, etc. This [principle] is crucial for growing your business. Climbing is a game we play, and for us to be a successful business we need to be skilled at inviting others to play and letting them succeed in the game. People want to feel awesome, and they need to be successful—that’s key for motivating customers to be members and climbers.” – Petter Ulmert, Klättercentret Helsingborg Co-Owner
In 2023, Artline designed a speed hold with children in mind. But a speed competition needs an official route!
Originally the idea was to leave the route design open, but after trying that out in several competitions, the FFME (French climbing federation) decided to standardise the setting, as for the adult version.
THE ROUTE
It is 8 metres high with a 5° angle, comprising 12 hand holds and 4 foot holds. The layout is similar to the official senior route but is shorter and the holds are closer together to suit smaller climbers.
The diagram below shows the senior holds in red and the youth holds in blue. As is shown, the two routes can be set side by side on the same wall.
Using similar holds on a similar layout helps the youth categories prepare for the senior route, improving their speed, motricity and coordination so they can be tomorrow’s champions!
Download the official youth speed routeCBJ press releases are written by the sponsor and do not represent the views of the Climbing Business Journal editorial team.
Janja Garnbret put on a show in Paris, becoming the sole sport climbing athlete to have won two gold medals at the Olympics. (Pictured: Garnbret training at Le Bourget, the site of the sport climbing action in Paris, prior to the start of the event; photo by Drapella / Jan Virt / IFSC)
Multiple new world records, twice as many medals, upsets, last-minute heroics, star-studded podiums…sport climbing’s second Olympics had it all. Didn’t have a chance to catch the show in Paris? This quick recap will help you get caught up.
For more Olympic climbing coverage, be sure to scroll down to the bottom of this page for results-related commentary from climbing media outlets around the globe.
Aleksandra Miroslaw broke her own world record and didn’t lose a race in Paris. (Pictured: Miroslaw celebrating after her record-setting run in qualifications; photo by Drapella / Virt / IFSC)
Miroslaw Perfect in Speed; Hunt Misses Out on Medal
The sport climbing event at the Paris Olympics ran from August 5-10, and Speed climbing kicked off the medal rounds. After thrice besting her own world record time—previously 6.24 seconds, set in 2023—in the qualification heats on Monday, lowering the women’s world record to 6.06 seconds, Aleksandra Miroslaw (POL) came out flying again in the finals. She had flawless runs in the quarterfinals and semifinals, then capped off the perfect week by finishing .08 seconds ahead of runner-up Lijuan Deng (CHN) for gold. Moments before the final race, her compatriot Aleksandra Kalucka (POL) claimed the first sport climbing medal at the Games in Paris, besting Rajiah Sallsabillah (INA) for bronze.
A slip in the Speed finals didn’t discourage Emma Hunt from continuing to embody the Olympic spirit: “Hunt stopped time and time again to cheer on competitors who were still climbing and exchange hugs with athletes who had also been eliminated,” reported USA Climbing. (Pictured: Hunt standing beside her coach, Oleksii Shulga, during the training days in Paris (click here to read about how Shulga helped Hunt reach the Olympic stage); photo by Drapella / Virt / IFSC)
For Team USA, Emma Hunt posted a quick time of 6.36 seconds in qualifications, but a slip in the quarterfinals ended her chance of earning a medal and resulted in a 5th place finish, and teammate Piper Kelly placed 12th out of the 14 women competing in Speed.
Veddriq Leonardo was unstoppable in Paris and climbed just .01 seconds off of Sam Watson’s record-setting pace on route to gold. (Pictured: Leonardo (left) training next to Bassa Mawem (right) in Paris; photo by Drapella / Virt / IFSC)
Leonardo Hangs on for Gold; Watson Breaks Own Record
In the men’s Speed competition, a new world record was being set left and right. On Tuesday, Sam Watson (USA) made headlines after coming away from qualifications with the fastest time—.04 seconds faster than the previous world record (4.79 seconds) he had set earlier this year. Watson came up .08 seconds short in the semifinals race with Peng Wu (CHN), but he still ended the day on a high note, further lowering the men’s world record to 4.74 seconds and edging Reza Alipour Shenazandifard (IRI) for bronze. Veddriq Leonardo (INA) had also been climbing fast all week, and he ultimately saved the best for last, racing to a personal best time in the finals to beat Wu by .02 seconds, for gold.
Sam Watson was the fastest speed climber in Paris, coming away with a new world record after qualifications and finals. (Pictured: Watson waiting for a training run prior to the competition; photo by Jan Virt, courtesy of USA Climbing)
Zach Hammer, for Team USA, also competed in the men’s Speed event and, following the two seeding heats on Tuesday, got a tough draw in the elimination heat that pitted him against Watson, preventing him from reaching the finals and resulting in a 14th place finish.
Still a teenager, 19-year-old Toby Roberts’ steady bouldering and lead climbing made all the difference in Paris. (Pictured: Roberts competing in the Boulder semis on Monday; photo by Drapella / Virt / IFSC)
Roberts an All-Around Star; Duffy Falls Few Holds Short
Different from sport climbing’s Olympic debut in Tokyo, the combined event in Paris consisted of only bouldering and lead climbing, and this time the scoring was based on a points system. For the semifinals, the Boulder and Lead action took place on separate days, whereas the two disciplines took place on the same day—30 minutes apart—for the finals.
Sorato Anraku (JPN), Toby Roberts (GBR) and Jakob Schubert (AUT) were the top-seeded athletes coming into the event, and none of them disappointed. In the Boulder finals on Friday, Anraku took the lead early and never gave it up, topping the first two problems—including a flash of the first one—and came just short of sending the final two. Then in Lead, Schubert set a high point that only Adam Ondra (CZE) could match, just one hold shy of the top. But in the end, it was Roberts who donned gold, following up his top-three performances in Boulder and Lead during the semis with another all-around day in which he scored top-three in both disciplines. Anraku finished in second place and Schubert—who had already won bronze at climbing’s Olympic debut, in Tokyo—added a second Olympic bronze medal to his collection.
Colin Duffy improved upon his result in Tokyo, rising to a 4th place finish in Paris. (Pictured: Duffy bouldering in the semifinal round; photo by Drapella / Virt / IFSC)
Team USA’s Colin Duffy—who placed 7th three years ago in Tokyo—came just about as close as it gets to winning an Olympic medal in sport climbing. Needing a top to end his Boulder final, Duffy came out on the dynamic last problem—featuring two lache moves separated by a double-paddle—and stuck the concluding lache with less than 25 seconds remaining, finishing just one point out of first. That score and his mark on the Lead wall kept him in a podium spot until the very last climb, which left him three points short of a medal. Teammate Jesse Grupper also competed in the Boulder/Lead event and finished in 18th place out of 20 climbers.
Not even a finger injury could stop Janja Garnbret from climbing to a second Olympic victory. (Pictured: Garnbret on her way to gold in the Lead final on Saturday; photo by Drapella / Virt / IFSC)
Garnbret Legend Continues; Raboutou Brings Home Silver
In the Women’s Boulder and Lead event, Janja Garnbret (SLO)—who won gold at the Olympics in Tokyo—was the favorite coming into the Games in Paris, and she further solidified her legendary status in the competition climbing world. Even after injuring a finger on the last problem of the Boulder final, she still rose to the occasion in the Lead final, closing out the sport climbing in Paris with a climb that netted her Olympic gold for a second straight summer Games. Only Jessica Pilz (AUT) and Ai Mori (JPN) climbed to a higher mark on the Lead wall; Mori finished in 4th place, while Pilz gave the Austria team its second bronze medal in Paris.
In Paris, Brooke Raboutou became the first American woman to win an Olympic medal in sport climbing. (Pictured: Raboutou swinging through the start of the last Boulder final problem; photo by Drapella / Virt / IFSC)
Brooke Raboutou was the other star of the show on Saturday. After narrowly missing out on a medal in Tokyo, Raboutou looked every bit the part in Paris. She joined Garnbret as the only two athletes to top three of four problems in the Boulder final, and her score in Lead kept her atop the podium until the very last climb of the week. Raboutou’s silver medal marked the culmination of a multi-year redemption story and earned Team USA its highest showing at the Games in Paris. Teammate Natalia Grossman excelled in the Boulder semifinal—putting up the 5th highest score—but just missed out on qualifying for the finals, finishing in 11th place.
Below are the complete results of the sport climbing event at the 2024 Olympic Games:
Yes – despite the Olympics, there is other news. Quite a few setting perspectives, trainings, and managing change. A few comp calendars/seasons starting. And a ton of open jobs.
But – oh yeah baby, we are in the heat of Olympic fever!! Speed records dropping, the first medals awarded (congrats Aleksandra Miroslaw!), and of course a bit of controversy. More gold medals will be earned today, tomorrow and Friday. Climbing media outlets around the world have gone into overtime, and there are simply too may articles to curate a selection for you, so below are the top outlets staying on top of things.
See The Freshest Job Posts Here
CBJ hosts the most active job board for climbing businesses and organizations. Below are the latest posts from this past week…Director of Project ManagementMovement
Remote
“This position is responsible for overseeing the end-to-end process of integrating and opening gyms, as well as maintaining the necessary support resources and systems. They are responsible for supporting cross-departmental functional collaboration that supports our company’s growth through successful openings of new gyms and seamless acquisitions.”
JOB SEEKER TIPS:
How To Go From Full-Time To Part-Time Hours
By CareerBuilder
“New job or business opportunities can present themselves anytime, but you may be unable to take advantage of them if you have a busy schedule because of a full-time job. Switching to part-time work can enable you to start your own business. You can also try another job in a new industry and see if you like it before you stop working at your current position and commit to a new full-time role.”Read the full article here
Graphic done by Climbing Business Journal; all photos courtesy of Blake GreenOn this episode of the Impact Driver Podcast, host Holly Chen talks with Blake Green. Blake is the head setter at the High Point Climbing and Fitness gym in Birmingham, Alabama. A veteran of the craft with over a decade of routesetting experience under his belt, Blake is a USAC Level 4 routesetter and has set for everything from qualifier to national-level USAC youth competitions. In his spare time, he loves to read and develop routes in his home of the American Southeast.Blake studied philosophy for both his undergraduate and master’s degrees, so he brings a novel perspective to routesetting, his passion for which is conspicuous. Blake and Holly look at routesetting and climbing culture through the lens of social theory, behavioral economics, and how one defines success as a routesetter. They discuss several books in today’s episode, with Blake outlining the main concepts covered. The pair also talked about different kinds of learning environments, the “10,000-Hour Rule,” and the adaptation of social theory to diverse routesetting crews. Blake talks about the mistakes he made over the years and how they shaped his perception going forward. And Blake and Holly get into the weeds on specific moves, competitions, and the limits of the USAC system.We hope you enjoy this episode of the Impact Driver Podcast!Thank you EP Climbing and Rock Gym Profor your support!
And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!
Timestamps
00:00 – Intro03:33 – Social theories05:40 – Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell06:40 – The 10,000-Hour Rule11:15 – Routesetting learning environments17:55 – Men setting for girls21:46 – Women quitting sports22:58 – Testing athletes28:04 – Run and jump lead starts32:25 – Introducing new moves41:15 – Success in routesetting49:42 – Who is successful and why52:21 – Definition of success56:41 – Measuring success01:01:15 – Setting mastery and success01:06:13 – The Matthew Effect01:08:43 – Being the wild card01:15:30 – Closing
Abridged Transcript
…So Blake, can you start by telling us a little bit about some of the social theories that you’ve been reading?
Yeah, so I guess a little bit of background is, in school, I studied philosophy. And that sounds boring—you know, people imagine old white guys with beards—but I tell people that my degrees are in critical thinking, so I get to use them every day. A lot of the things that I’ve been reading lately would kind of fall under the categories of social psychology, or a term I learned more recently is behavioral economics, which I didn’t know was a whole genre. And definitely there are a couple things that are kind of weird, but then there are some that are actually pretty good that I think are actually digestible and that I recommend to coaches and routesetters and my team parents of kids that I coach all the time.And one of those is Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell, and another one is Range by David Epstein. And those two books are really terrific books for kind of just giving people a comprehensive idea of what it means to be successful, where success comes from, and understanding that the whole idea of success within our culture is actually really complicated. And the TLDR is that really no one is successful in a vacuum. And people that we think of as highly successful ultimately have much more complicated stories than the very simple ones we see on the media or that we tell ourselves…When it comes to being successful in routesetting, Green (pictured far right) says, “I want to look at the routesetting culture the same way that Malcolm Gladwell is looking at the greater society in terms of success. Within the book, Malcolm makes a really compelling argument that success is something that is ultimately the product of a social context.” (Photo by Phuc Nguyen @thetallbeta)
Gladwell discusses the idea that achieving mastery in any field requires approximately 10,000 hours of deliberate practice. And I sat down, and I did the math: How long have I been setting? And this is the best estimate, because obviously I can’t get every single hour involved, but I’ve only roughly set for 6,500.
Man, I know I’ve set more than 10,000 hours. I mean, I’ve been setting for 12 years at this point, and I’ve been setting full time since I’ve been setting—full time for 10 of those 12 years. So, 30 or 40 hours a week on average for those years. It’s interesting that Outliers is one of the books largely credited in our cultural zeitgeist as coming up with this 10,000-hours rule. And he is citing a couple of different, very interesting studies in that book. But another book that I think is really important, and I think is a really good companion to Outliers, is Range by David Epstein.In Range, David Epstein makes the point that 10,000 hours, or roughly 10,000 hours, is a good metric for achieving expertise and things that fit what we would call “a kind learning environment.” So, a kind learning environment is a type of skill—like playing an instrument or golf are really good examples—where the factors are relatively known that I can engage in. And this 10,000-hour rule applies to deliberate practice. So, I can engage in deliberate practice, and just by trying to do this thing with the intention of getting better for roughly 10,000 hours, I can achieve expertise. So, in a kind learning environment like chess, where all the information is known, or playing an instrument, I can try, I can make a mistake, I can immediately see the results of my actions.What’s important, that distinction of kind learning environments, [is that] some psychologists like Daniel Kahneman and Robin Hogarth juxtaposed it against wicked learning environments. And a wicked learning environment is much more complicated, where not only is all the information not known, but there’s not an immediate feedback system for: “How did my decision pan out?” And routesetting is really interesting because there are some elements of it that might be kind. I can set this boulder, I can have all these ideas, we can forerun, we can make all these decisions about how it works for our community, I can put it on the wall and then I can watch people climb it. So in that context, I think setting is actually a very kind learning environment. And I think commercial setting looks like a kind learning environment, where 10,000 hours, give or take, is going to make someone a pretty expert commercial setter…But I’ve been thinking a lot about competition setting, and the kind of decisions when we’re setting for a competition field, and especially in a competition with multiple rounds—qualifiers, finals. And I think competition setting actually looks a lot more like a wicked learning environment, because we are trying to make more specific decisions with even more specific outcomes and there’s always imperfect information. Because as much as we think we know about the competitors, we never have access to what is going on in their mind. The amount of information, processing, decisions, nerves or things that are going on in the competitor’s mind and the way those things pan out in an event actually make competition much more of a wicked learning environment, and I think the 10,000-hour rule is much flimsier in the competition realm…
So you’re saying that, essentially, setting in itself has multiple different types of learning environments, that some can be kind and some can be wicked, and that the 10,000-hour rule may not apply to a comp setter and a commercial setter?
Yeah, I think that’s really true. One of the reasons why I think Range and Outliers actually go really well together is because, in Range, Epstein talks a lot about how in wicked learning environments there are a lot of different attributes that can lead to solving the specific types of problems that come up. And one of the things that’s really interesting is that in numerous fields—from engineering to the many studies of this in hospitals to judges determining who should get out on bail—there are too many studies to count on experts actually being relatively bad at making good decisions. And there are also plenty of contexts in which experts are very good at making decisions in their narrow field of expertise but are very bad at making decisions about novel problems, problems they haven’t seen before, or problems that they’re not as well equipped to deal with. And that is a hallmark of wicked learning environments, is that there are novel problems, or there are problems that will arise because there’s imperfect access to information.One of the points that is made really well in that book is that one of the ways to get around how bad we are at dealing with uncertainty, just as humans, is actually by having teams of people with diverse backgrounds and diverse experiences, and that having a bunch of different people who come from different backgrounds and who don’t all have expertise in the same thing, they can actually solve those problems way better. And one of the interesting things that I’ve found in building [routesetting] crews I’ve chiefed over the last several years is valuing different backgrounds and people coming into the events without the tradition pedigree, like USAC Levels…“There’s a lot in the statement, ‘You can’t fault a chief,’ says Green, who values working alongside a diverse setting crew when chiefing. “I think we can. I think we can hold chiefs accountable for a lot.”
…Going back to the regionals, there was a route that got put up, and some of the concerns surrounding it were like, “Well, you know, it really plays to their strength, it plays to their flexibility, their ability to potentially break beta if you have a different body type and find a different way around it.” And we were wondering whether or not to tweak the route into something that would really test things that are stereotypically not in a woman’s route, which are maybe power or thugginess and things like that. And the result was that we didn’t tweak it into something that is in the power range. We just turned up what we would be testing in terms of their strengths: “You are flexible, you can break beta. Okay, how far can you take that? If you can take it really far, you win. If you can’t take it really far, then great, you end your season on a high, on a route that you know you’re going to do well on, and you move on to collegiate, hopefully.”
I think that’s a really cool way to approach a climb like that, saying, “Let’s actually, if we’re going to test their strengths, let’s find out where the limit is.” I think that’s really cool. And honestly, when you started talking about an experience you had at a recent regionals, I thought you were going to tell an opposite story, which I have in my mind, I think about this all the time: I was setting a regionals where, because of space constraints, the Female B and A and Junior had to be stacked on the same routes, and same with Male A Junior. And that usually goes rough for the B categories when that happens.But I went into it thinking, “I have a hypothesis that a lot of coaches, especially because most coaches are men—at least at that point, eight years ago—I think a lot of these coaches are not actually coaching their girls to jump as readily or as willingly or as much of an automatic solution to problems as they are to boys. I think that some of these assumptions of girls and boys’ climbing styles are getting baked in socially.” And so, I set this jump on the Female B A Junior route that wasn’t that hard, it was essentially to a volume that was like a jug. And I was like, “Cool, I’m going to see which of the coaches are just making sure that their girls are comfortable jumping.” Unfortunately, I set the move horribly…The move backfired heinously. It was this horrible bottleneck, and because it was in this lead area that’s dug down into a pit, they were almost at eye level with all the spectators. It was horrible. The route went super bad.…A month later, I was setting divisionals for that same crop of kids, one event up. And a coach from one of the teams comes up to me and is like, “Hey, did you set that white route for the Female B A Juniors at regionals?” And I was like, “Oh, no, I’m about to get so much shit for this.” And I’m like, “Yeah, that was me.” And he’s like, “Hey, thank you for setting that because it looked like a bottleneck in the comp, but we all came away from that on our team, all of our coaches, and we sat down and we made sure, went through and drilled dynoing on lead for our older girls after that happened.” And I was like, “Whoa…”
Okay, let’s take this a little bit further. I can’t remember off the top of my head which comp this was, but I believe this was a team trial some time ago, someone zero-scored on a route for women for run and jump. And this run and jump, if I remember correctly—I’m going to fact-check this after this episode—is a straight upward dyno off of some volume of some kind, and that route was set by men, I believe.
So, you’re bringing up Team Trials at Stone Summit Atlanta in 2022, I believe. And it affected several climbers, but Norah Chi is the climber that most people remember it affecting. Because Norah is a terrific climber, and she was climbing so well at the time, she was expected to be in contention for the National Team at the 2022 Team Trials at Stone Summit in Atlanta. And so that was an example, it was really interesting, because yeah, that route was set by men, and I think any number of things about that move could have been done differently or better. But I think one of the things that made that impactful was that it was in a single-route round. And at that point, we hadn’t seen very many dynamic starts, especially within USA Climbing on semifinals or finals rounds. And so, when there’s that really harsh result, and that’s people’s first interaction to it or introduction to seeing something like that, and it looks like it’s backfiring, then it’s easy to be very critical of the setting team. And my only criticism at the time was just that it feels like we miss things like this for the women’s round more than the men’s round…
I want to go back to success a little bit, because let’s say we take [the friend and colleague you mentioned] as a definition of someone who is successful in routesetting culture, community, career. Can we bring that back into talking about the specifics of the definition of success and why we see someone as being successful in routesetting?…
…I think to some degree it’s just really easy for us to tell ourselves that success is equal to notoriety. How well-known someone is is a token of how successful they are, which I think in a lot of cases is true, but in a lot of cases it’s not true on the opposite side. Other people might be very successful and we don’t know them…What is the metric? Is the metric successful in the industry? And by that I just mean are they still here after ten years, or did they pack up and go home? Because a lot of wonderful routesetters who I love and admire have left the industry. Is success just hanging in there? Is success getting perfect separation at every comp? It’s probably not…Is success leveling up in the USAC system?…I do think we have a lot of ways to expand on and grow the idea of success…“Success for me, on events I have chiefed, has looked like people feeling validated and heard,” Green says. “The times I have felt the most like a failure as a chief were the times when setters who I cared about told me they felt unheard.”
…In the wider system, do you have any idea of what kind of solution we can be working toward to shift that measure of success from these traditional factors of separation into something that’s a little bit more sustainable for both the routesetters and the climbers who they’re setting for?
I think that’s a really complicated question. I do think to some degree it’s like, yeah, Colin Duffy shows up, and I think that success is measurable in the sense of being good marketing material. But again, I think it just depends on what your or the event’s goal is. I think success is going to be event dependent. So, if this event is a youth comp versus if it’s a cash-purse comp versus if it’s a community comp, I do think in some way success for that event will always be indexed to who it’s for. And then I think, beyond that, the chief of the event does get to decide a lot of what success looks and feels like for the crew…
Another point that I want to talk about from Outliers is that the author emphasizes successes. And you talked about this very briefly, how success does not exist in a vacuum, it’s determined by a bunch of different factors, not just individual effort. We all want to think that, “If I work hard, I can definitely be successful,” but that’s not always the case, especially in a field like routesetting. Can you kind of describe for us what I think is the “Matthew Effect” in Gladwell’s book?
So, the Matthew Effect is basically the idea that people will accrue success in accordance with accruing popularity or social acceptance. And I think it’s really common in routesetting, and I think it’s really apparent—I don’t think it’s news to anybody that certain people are always on crews together. I think if someone feels frustrated watching it happen from the outside, I think that frustration is really valid…One of the things that I try to do [as a crew chief] besides bringing in [a more diverse crew] is a lot of those things that you’ve expressed. A lot of those fears [in being the “wild card” on a crew] come from being in some sort of toxic environment where there’s this perception of failure as a bad thing. And I try to tell everybody that literally everything that I can do really efficiently and really fast is one or multiple heinous f*** ups. In all of my crew meetings, one of my commoner frames is: “The reason I’m chiefing this event is because I have made more mistakes than everyone else here.”So, if the couple people who are my “sure things”— who are my strongly referenced people that I’ve worked with in one or two events—I’m bringing those people in, and then I’m bringing in wild cards. And if my assistants who I’m bringing in all are on the same page, drinking the same Kool Aid of, “Yeah, we can f*** up, you can strip my boulder,” whatever it is—if I’m modeling that, and they’re modeling that, then all of a sudden, everyone else on the crew is like, “Oh, I can f*** up [too].”
…I’ve had enough climbs stripped that I’ve learned a lot of good strategies to avoid it. But one of the other things that I’ve done in a couple boulder comps where I was chiefing with largely unknown people is I’ll set really fast. I’ll put a lot of skeletons on the wall really quickly. As the chief, I’ll set a total placeholder skeleton that I know is not good but was a style and I’ll say, “Hey, forerun that boulder last.” And then when they come around, I’ll say, “Oh yeah, strip my boulder.” And they’re like, “What?” I’m like, “Yeah, strip it. It’s stupid.” And there’s just something so liberating about, “My idea as a chief is no more sacrosanct than anyone else’s. Just take it down, throw it away, put something good on the wall.” That can break the ice really fast on day one. And I’ve found other, often better, faster ways of doing things than that, but that way always still works…
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In 2023, 
THE ROUTE
It is 8 metres high with a 5° angle, comprising 12 hand holds and 4 foot holds. The layout is similar to the official senior route but is shorter and the holds are closer together to suit smaller climbers.
The diagram below shows the senior holds in red and the youth holds in blue. As is shown, the two routes can be set side by side on the same wall.
Using similar holds on a similar layout helps the youth categories prepare for the senior route, improving their speed, motricity and coordination so they can be tomorrow’s champions!
CBJ hosts the most active job board for climbing businesses and organizations. Below are the latest posts from this past week…
